Questions, Statements & Predictions

Questions

• What are the most significant issues that make you see a border wall as crucial?
• What would having a border wall across most of the southern border mean to you?
• Where does the border wall rank compared to other political issues for you?
• To what degree do you believe the border wall will be effective in keeping people out?
• If Mexico doesn’t pay for the wall, will that make any difference in how you feel about the cost of building it?
• If that tax money were not spent on the wall, what would be the most important other things you’d like to see done?
• Do you see immigrants making any positive contributions?

Statement

The following statement is what you might say after you’ve made a statement about whatever issue underlies the person’s desire for a wall, eg. crime, wage suppression.

I hear you saying that having a border wall would you make you sleep better at night knowing that there weren’t as many illegal immigrants coming into the country.

At the same time, I think people have raised some very legitimate questions about how effective the wall would be that haven’t been answered. Like, in Texas, a lot of the property where the new stretch of wall would be built is private farms and ranches whose owners don’t want to sell because it’s their livelihood. The government would have to sue every one of them and pay them huge amounts of money.

I’ve seen different estimates as to how much the wall itself would cost. Fox News was saying $25 billion and other places have put as high as $75 billion so it’s hard to know. If it were $25 billion, that’s enough to give 50,000 small businesses half a million dollar grants or pay for rebuilding infrastructure and, from my perspective, using the money in that way would do a lot more to help the American economy and create new jobs. I also believe we could be using some of that money to stop drug trafficking and to help countries where immigrants are coming from economically so that not as many would feel compelled to come here looking for work. 

I also have some questions about how effective it would be. I saw a video of two women climbing a border wall in 18 seconds. Another video shows people finding ways to build ramps to drive over the wall. Even with the new metal slats, they can cut right through it with a reciprocating saw. An Arizona governor said, “Show me a 50 foot wall and I’ll show you a 51 foot ladder.” That to me says that people are really suffering and are very determined to cross the border, wall or no wall. It seems to me that we can manage who’s coming in and out of the country more effectively by allowing people to come and go and work legally so that they’re not entering illegally and so they don’t feel like once they’re here, that they have to stay because going back and forth is so hard. 

When I look at all the things that could be done that I think would have a bigger impact on slowing down illegal immigration, and when I think about how President Trump is someone who brags a lot and seems pretty thin-skinned, my sense is that the wall is a vanity project for him. I think he wants a big wall with his name on it as his legacy and I think that’s why he’s not backing down. What I want is what’s best for the country, not what’s best for Trump’s ego.

Prediction

If we go ahead with the wall (or with other forms of border security), I think people will still always find a way in if they’re desperate enough, and so we’ll have spent a lot of money and still have just about as many undocumented immigrants living here.

If we use that money to invest in economic development here and abroad and allow people to enter legally, I think there would be a net benefit to having immigrants living and working here.

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Color-Blindness/Implicit Bias

This is a standard four-part position statement as outlined in Chapter Five of the book.

1. I hear you saying that you’re color-blind and that what that means to you is that you don’t judge people based on their race and ethnicity but look at each person as an individual and that you believe that when liberals or people of color bring up race, it’s reinforcing racism when what we should be doing instead is encouraging people to be color-blind.

2. At the same time, what I’ve been learning more and more about is unconscious bias. There’s a test a lot of people are taking online (at implicit.harvard.edu) that showed me that I have negative assumptions about black people and the really fascinating part is that most Americans, including black people, have these unconscious biases because we’ve all grown up with them all around us in media and pop culture.

When I started learning more about this, I found out that there are still so many forms of discrimination out there. Like, black professionals earn 30% less than whites in the same job– I mean, that’s just jaw-dropping to me!  And black men getting longer sentences for the same crime. The real clincher for me was when I saw that black men who look more stereotypically African-American– with darker skin and kinky hair–are twice as likely as a light-skinned black man to get the death penalty when they’re convicted of killing a white person. And that discrepancy doesn’t apply if the murder victim was black which is a whole other wrinkle.

So I see people’s skin color having a huge impact on how they’re treated in big ways like employment and criminal justice and also in smaller ways that are still pretty awful like getting kicked out of hotel lobbies and Starbucks for no reason.

3. So, for me, I think the problem with being color-blind is that while it’s an effort to achieve equality, it ignores the real differences in how people of different races and ethnicities are treated. And so my concern is that if someone is committed to being color-blind and, at the same time, isn’t aware that they probably have some unconscious biases, that they can wind up discriminating against people of color without wanting to and without even realizing it. It’s like, if someone isn’t seeing race, then they’re also not seeing racism.

4. On a personal level, I get that you’re committed to not wanting to discriminate against anyone. Knowing you as I do, I trust what you’re saying because I know you’re such a  loving and accepting person who would never consciously discriminate against anyone.

For myself, I’m trying to become more conscious of my own unconscious biases so that I’ll be less likely to have attitudes that are hurtful or to discriminate against people of color. I figure, the more awareness I have, the more likely I’ll be to catch myself and then check in and ask myself—why am I assuming this or why am I reacting to this person this way and would I do the same if they were white. I don’t think I’ll ever be perfect at it but I’m just going to keep at it as much as I can and keep learning.

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Questions

• Have you always been concerned about immigrant crime or has something happened that made this more personal and painful for you?
• Have you or someone you know been the victim of a crime by an illegal immigrant or have you heard about specific crimes that you’re upset about? Or is your worry because of news reports that indicated that immigrants are committing a lot of violent crimes?
• When do you worry most about it–at home or when you’re at work or out and about?
• (Note: It’s tempting to ask if they believe immigrants commit more crime than citizens and then drop a truth bomb on them but this would be entrapping so don’t do it).

Statement & Prediction

I hear you voicing a lot of concern about immigrants committing a lot of crime and being responsible for the increase in violence, which makes you worry about keeping our neighborhoods safe. I’m horrified by all the violence in our country, and I want our community to be safe.

At the same time, one of the things I’ve noticed is that the media and politicians often report crime statistics that sound like one group of people is committing a huge or disproportionate amount of crime, by using statistics without putting then in context.  Like, I remember once hearing someone saying that, in Texas, undocumented immigrants were charged with, like, 300,000 crimes or something, which sounds like a lot, but then I realized they were talking about the grand total for seven years and that they were comparing that to the crime rate of citizens for just one year, so it was like an apples and oranges comparison that made it look like immigrants commit way more crime.

And when I got in there and did the math for myself, I saw that the rate of citizens getting charged with crime was much higher and that undocumented immigrants in Texas were committing less crime than citizens. From what I’ve read, it’s not just in Texas–the highest crime rate is native-born citizens, the second-highest is undocumented immigrants and the lowest is legal immigrants.

Another thing I see is that when an incredibly horrific crime is committed by an immigrant, it gets a certain kind of media attention, and I think the human brain tends to latch on to stories like that and not remember how rare they are. There was a study these professors at the University of Alabama did that found that the media covers Muslim terrorist attacks three times more than other kinds of terrorist attacks, and I think the same might be true of coverage of crime by immigrants versus citizens though I haven’t seen any studies on it.

So it seems to me like immigrants are getting unfairly singled out and blamed, and my concern is that blaming any single group for problems is dangerous and can lead to unfair treatment or even violence against them. I also think it distracts us from what I see as the major problem that people from all races and nationalities are facing which is that the system is rigged so that the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer and then all this poverty can lead to more crime. [Optional: And I see it causing you so much unnecessary fear–I don’t like to see the toll it’s taking on you].

Prediction: If immigrants get blamed for the increase in crime, then I think we’ll be ignoring the biggest causes of crime and poverty and, instead, fueling fear and hatred of people who aren’t the major perpetrators. If we look carefully at who’s committing the crimes and who’s causing such severe economic inequality, then we’ll be able to come up with better solutions and we won’t have to walk around feeling afraid all the time .

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Questions

• Do you know people who have gotten addicted to painkillers or other drugs?’
• Has the opioid epidemic hit your community pretty hard? What kind of impacts are you seeing?

The following question could come across as entrapping. If the first two questions don’t go anywhere and your conversation is more about policy than personal experience, the following question is appropriate. Otherwise, you can just mention the DEA as part of your position statement:

• Do you believe that the Drug Enforcement Agency is correct that the vast majority of drugs comes in through legal checkpoints in trucks and boats? If they say they don’t believe DEA…What do you think would motivate them to lie?

Statement

Step 1: I hear you saying

I hear you saying you’re very upset to think about undocumented immigrants bringing illegal drugs through the border and the horrible impact drugs are having on people who get addicted to them.

Step 2: Contradictions between what person is saying and your own information or experience

At the same time, the DEA has said that most illegal drugs come through legal entry points, and I believe them. And the other really big thing I’ve been reading about is how pharmaceutical companies aggressively market opiods to doctors and so the doctors have been prescribing opioids as pain killers for a long time now, and people have gotten totally addicted and then start turning to illegal opioids when they can’t get the prescriptions anymore.

Step 3: Your tentative conclusions about what the contradiction between the other person’s position and your position means

It seems to me that the focus on illegal immigrants being responsible pulls attention away from the pharmaceutical companies pushing addictive drugs and the cartels who are smuggling in drugs in boats and vehicles. Like, I remember when the border patrol pulled 750 agents away from inspecting cars and trucks at legal ports of entry and redeployed them to try to catch people trying to cross illegally on foot—I bet the drug smugglers were pretty happy about that.

When I see politicians focus on immigrants who are trying to get across the border to escape violence or feed their families instead of focusing on the people who are causing the drug epidemic, I believe their motive is to fuel hatred for their own purposes, not to stop drugs from entering the country.

Step 4: Your own reactions (beliefs, reasoning, feelings)

I totally agree about how unbelievably horrible the addiction epidemic is here in the U.S. When I think about all the people addicted to opioids and dying of overdoses, it makes me sick. (Reference any personal stories either of you has shared). What I’d like to see is treatment for people who are addicted, instead of treating it as a crime, and holding drug companies accountable for pushing the painkillers and hiding the evidence that they’re addictive—they should have to pay for treatment for all the people who are trying to break their addiction. Plus, I want to have more inspections at border checkpoints where most of the drugs are coming in.

Prediction

I believe that if our country continues to blame immigrants, it will fuel hatred without making progress in stopping the drug epidemic. If we focus on treatment and on stopping the flow of drugs, we can make progress and save more lives.

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Questions

• What do you think the most common reasons are that motivate women to report men as having sexually harassed or raped them?
• Have you ever been in a situation where a supervisor or a co-worker mistreated you in a pretty extreme way, like undermining your work or bullying you and you felt like you couldn’t report it – or maybe you did and your supervisor didn’t do anything?
• If it hasn’t happened to you, has it ever happened to someone you know, a co-worker, or friend or family member?  If so, how did you feel about whether they should report it? What ended up happening?

If the person says people automatically believe women…

• What makes you think that people are automatically believing women and not giving men a chance to say their side?
• Do you worry about the impact of the #metoo movement on any of the men in your life?
• Do you think it’s harder, easier or about the same for women or men to come forward and talk about being sexually abused? How hard would it be for you to do it? What would be hard about it for you?

Statement

This is a complex position statement that jumps back and forth between different sets of contradictions and conclusions on various facets of the issue (due process, traumatic memory loss, and motives).

I hear you sayingthat you feel like the #metoo movement has gone too far and that you’re concerned about men being falsely accused and losing their jobs or maybe even facing prison.

To me, it’s important that both women and men feel able to come forward and, at the same time, to make sure there are procedures followed that would protect someone who’s unjustly accused. If I were an employer, I’d want to make sure that someone making allegations doesn’t have to continue working with the person they’re accusing, so I’d put the accused person on leave while the allegations are investigated or make sure they don’t have to come into contact with each other while at work. I also feel strongly that the person being accused should always have the right to defend themselves.

I think the same thing happens with all kinds of legal proceedings and this is no different. The people in positions of authority make the best decision they can based on all of the available facts and evidence. I assume that especially in high profile, controversial cases,they get it right most of the timeand sometimes they don’t and, when they don’t, that’s awful for whichever person was telling the truth and wasn’t believed.

It’s horrible to me to think of anyone being falsely convicted of a crime or any kind of misconduct. It’s also heartbreaking to me to think of women or men being harassed or even sexually assaulted for so many years and feeling like it’s too risky for them to come forward.

I see women who speak up coming under intense scrutiny, having to answer all kinds of embarrassing questions and risking their reputations. Christine Blasey Ford even got death threats when she testified in the Kavanaugh hearings and she and her family had to move four times and she couldn’t even return to her job at Stanford. And I’ve heard about other women who are made to feel like they were somehow asking for it.

And so, when I think about what someone is likely to go through to come forward, then I think that they would only be willing to make a false accusation if they had some kind of really intense personal vendetta against someone and, if that were the case, I think that the person being accused would bring that up, and it would get aired, and the jury or the employer or whoever is judging the case would decide the validity of each of their claims.

Optional if other person challenges memory gaps of accuser: I can understand why people might be suspicious when the person making the accusation has memory gaps.  I remember talking to someone who thought it was odd that Christine Blasey Ford couldn’t remember how she got home from that party and I told her about something that happened to me in college with a creepy guy on the subway and I can’t tell you to this day where I was going or what happened afterwards but what I do remember very clearly is his face and what he was doing with his penis. I’m sure I could still identify him in a lineup thirty-five years later, and I don’t know if I forgot the other details because it was traumatic or because it was a long time ago. I’ve heard a lot of psychologists say that memory loss is very common after any kind of trauma.

What I think is happening now is that there are a lot of women coming forward with allegations about things that have been going on for a long time but they never had the nerve to come forward before–like there was that woman senator from Arizona who came forward with her story of being raped many years ago by a superior officer in the Air Force and she didn’t come forward until she was a Senator because she didn’t trust the system and she blamed herself and felt a lot of shame and confusion. So I think that, like with her, there’s probably a backlog of claims that will take some time to get through. Once that happens, I believe there will be a gradual change in how people understand sexual harassment and hopefully there will be far less of it in the future.

I see it as similar to how hard it’s been for boys who were sexually abused to come forward because of the embarrassment and fear of how others will see them. But once the whole Catholic sex abuse scandal was exposed, so many men found the courage to tell their stories.

To me, it feels like we’re in an era where all kinds of bullying is getting exposed and becoming socially unacceptable. There’s so much bullying in offices and in schools and online, and teens are committing suicide over intense cyber bullying. Many of the abusers have also been abused so it’s a vicious cycle.

So I’m glad that society is holding men and women, and boys and girls, accountable when they abuse their power over others.  I think that people telling their stories is what’s making change possible.

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These are questions that could pertain to conversations about multiple topics:

• How did you come to that conclusion?
• I haven’t heard about that…Where did you learn about it?…Do you have any hope that it’s not true?
• Is what you just described unusual or something that you think happens a lot?
• What makes you believe they (scientist/agency/etc.) would lie about that?
• How much trust do you have in research that’s conducted by the industry concerning their own products as compared to scientists not related to that particular industry? If they say all scientists have their own agenda… Do you think there are scientists whose commitment is simply to finding accurate data?
• Would it be upsetting to you if what I’m saying is true?
• Do you think things used to be better in this country? If they say yes…When do you think they started to go bad? What do you think made things get worse? What do you think would make things better?
• Are there things that are going well for you in your life right now?
• If you could change one thing about what’s happening in our country, what would be most important to you? Would these changes make you feel more secure or more happy or something else?
• What do you think you’d do if you were in that situation?
• Have you ever had someone blame you for something you felt wasn’t your fault? If yes… How did you react when that happened?
• If they accuse someone of “playing the race/gender card”…Do you see them getting some kind of advantage when they bring up racial/gender discrimination?…Do you believe that advantage is bigger or smaller than the disadvantage of being a person of color/woman/gay person?